Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 16, 2013 10:04:12 GMT
Hi Guys! Here's the latest reincarnation of the Thirty Years War, which started as a collaboration between me and scutari. I have since abandoned the other file, and started from scratch, trigger and gameplay wise. I have still used scutari's excellent map! Now, attached is the scenario itself, as well as the WIP Strategy Guide. I have playtested 3 factions, and there remains 7 factions still. So if you have some time, scutari, or anyone of you out there, could you please give me a hand in PT? As usual, any feedback is much appreciated.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 16, 2013 10:50:55 GMT
Nice work, Shieldy! Lets do this! Edit. I noticed some things while starting Hapsburg campaign. 1. You're making the Ottomans and Poland playable, which I really don't think will work out. They didn't have much to do with thirty years war besides indirect help to the other sides. 2. Hapsburgs can apparently make alliance with United provinces which is sort of ahistorical (given that they'll be at war with each other during it ), I'd replace that with Italian city states. Btw, it could also help if you created flares to the locations where the warchest needs to be sent. 3. Hostilities start before 1618. The Hungarians attack before the war begins. 4. Every military building went to neutral after one was touched by enemies. 5. I think pop cap should be tied to the amount of settlements. Besides that, nothing else to mention. I defeated the first Bohemian attack and then went to destroy my initial army at Brno.
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Mr.UNleash
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Post by Mr.UNleash on Jun 16, 2013 17:28:23 GMT
I'll try to PT it some time this week, since I haven't really PT'd anything in a while :3
I'll wait to see if you wanna fix anything Scutari mentioned first.
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 17, 2013 11:09:37 GMT
Thanks scutari. I can't overemphasize this much, but your map is just plain excellent. I have only played 3 factions so far, but the placement of the cities as well as the terrain on those cities make a lot for varied gameplay! Thank you again. As to your comments: 1. I actually consulted Wikipedia's site on 30 Years War, and they are listed as major combatants, so I guess I had to put them there as major factions. We do have of course the Polish-Ottoman War during the 1620s, and the Ottoman War against Venice in the 1640s. I'll be taking artistic license here, and to provide for a varied game play, I'll still have them both. 2. Hahaha.. Yes, I'll change it. I fasttracked the completion of the trigger work, and maybe I'm sleeping when I did that trigger. 3. I'll check them. By Hungarians you mean the rebels of Player 13? The black guys under the "---" civilization? These are spawned whenever you encounter an enemy tower. I'll have them limited to 1618 upwards. 4. Now this is odd. I have never encountered this. I'll recheck the file. 5. Oh, it is. They are tied up even to the actual population (well estimated, from Europa Universalis III), of the regions included in the game. I divided it to the average Manpower Unit the faction has (because obviously not all population are militarily-able), and you have the popcap levels. You'll see in my Excel sheet how I came up with all of the game mechanics. Yes, I know, I like to complicate things. Destroy your initial army at Brno means you have lost your army, or the enemy's army? Because on my very first try at PT, I barely survived 2 years! As usual, I like my games hard, but please do comment if it is manageable or not, game difficulty-wise. You did read the strategy guide right? While you can win (with difficulty) the scenario without engaging the game features, those features (mercenaries, markets, tactical points) would definitely make the game easier to handle. Also, for others, kindly pick up on factions 5 to 11, since those were the factions that, right now, I have not yet tested yet. EDIT: Thanks for the interest Unleash. I'll see if I can provide you an SSA file, after I check on the comments of scutari.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 17, 2013 17:43:05 GMT
1. But there's not enough ongoing things that would make the Polish and Ottomans interesting, plus half of those that there are would happen outside the current map. As with the army, yes my army. Since all military buildings became inaccessable, and there weren't enough TP for mercs, I just went out to die at Brno. That reminds me, losing my chief of staff didn't cause me to lose the game.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 18, 2013 4:38:51 GMT
On 1, I'll face the repercussions, and still let them be there. Call it artistic license, buddy. Although could you suggest a more proper faction name for the Ottoman Empire covered by the map? I'm gunning for Ottoman Transylvania. As to the buildings being neutral, is this the neutral building Yellow? Then it means you've lost available manpower, and as I have stated in the Strategy Guide, you'll lose control of military buildings once you don't have MPU. This is to prevent players spamming armies while at the same time being true to the Manpower Levels tied up to historical population.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 18, 2013 14:10:01 GMT
Well the Ottoman empire is good enough, and Transylvania isn't even in the map. Yes they were yellow, I see now. Have to remember that too, hehe. I will try PTing Bohemia soon.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 19, 2013 5:09:52 GMT
Awwww... My poor geography again. Hahaha... Is there any way the area covered by the Ottoman Empire in the map can be called another name? Because it sucks that the whole of Ottoman Empire capitulates (them having only 3 cities and minor ones at that = no capitols).
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 19, 2013 14:20:29 GMT
"Ottoman Hungary" is the best bet. but then can we call Poland-Lithuania as that too? Should we just make it Poland?
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 19, 2013 16:27:00 GMT
Okay. Ottoman Hungary and Poland then.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 21, 2013 13:28:51 GMT
I am testing Bohemia now. Should I pinpoint some tips/strategy for it?
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 21, 2013 18:11:17 GMT
Please do. What I have are simple tips, related to the tips I used when playing Hapsburg. Hopefully, we'll have different strategies noted in the strategy guide.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 22, 2013 8:01:00 GMT
Ok so first a few points: - I think the Catholic league capital should be Munchen instead of Cologne. Bavaria happened to be the major state of the league -I noticed that attacks come from the "..." faction when not a Hapsburg faction as well. Any specific reason for this? -Also, I noticed that the enemy attacks don't always come regularly. After the start attacks, the attack waves stay in their spawn unless stirred to attack, and then they come in massive numbers. -I happened to open a UP game as well. I think they are starting in a too difficult setting, with only 3 cities and straight next to the Catholic capital (and I guess only capitals spawn attack armies) I think for the dutch, this should change to only war with Hapsburgs at start, and attacks coming from Flanders area instead of Wien. -Again the potential allies tend to be somewhat ahistorical. let me devise a list of who can ally who (not saying this is 00% historical too, but makes more sense at lvast ): Hapsburgs can ally Catholics, Poland and neutral (to represent their commandeering of the empire) Bohemia can ally Protestants, Ottomans and UP Protestants can ally Bohemia, UP and Denmark Catholics can ally Hapsburgs, Poland and France UP can ally Protestants, France and Sweden Poland can ally Hapsburgs, Catholics and Denmark Ottomans can ally Bohemia, protestants and France Denmark can ally Protestants, Bohemia and Poland Sweden can ally Protestants, France and UP France can ally Ottomans, Sweden and UP ----- Now to Bohemia tips: -Fortify Brno and Bautzen heavily, fortifying Pilzen well is worthwhile as well (if we change the catholic capital, Bautzen and Pilzen change priorities) -Allying with Ottomans can help in the start against Hapsburgs, while UP and protestants can help against catholics and can be useful later on too. I think that's all I can come up with as tips. The campaigns need some uniqueness to set them apart from each other.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 23, 2013 5:33:32 GMT
Thanks Scutari! - Catholic League capital. Okay. - These are grey players, or yellow? If grey, they are set to be as raiders, and will attack you whatever nation you are. It's just that the Hapsburg areas are vast and they are tasked to p1 1-9999 bldgs, so they may take their time choosing which building to attack. If yellow, then this should definitely not happen. I'll check this. - I'll check on the spawn triggers. I remember putting an "OR" together with an "AND" operation there, so the "AND" operation may not be working. Also, the spawns are variable, and they attack from either north, south, east and west directions, so you better be prepared on any direction. I know it won't be historical, but this way, I can be surprised just as well, for even though I am the creator, I won't know where the random hostile armies will be. - UP, will do. As to the enemy player's own armies, yes, they do spawn from their capitol. - I have an Excel sheet of alliances, and I may have mixed them up when I sorted them, so the alliances I made in the triggers may very well be wrong. Also, I have Denmark, Sweden and France starting on their respective entry dates on the war, so I have not given them alliances option. Also, these would make them a more difficult choice for the player. The rest I'll change alliances as per your suggestion (not with the neutral player though, since it will ruin important trigger effects. - I also agree, the differences in each faction should be more pronounced (although their starting positions are varied, and as you can see, you need to adapt on changes in your strategy location wise), but you are very correct. It just loses the factions' uniqueness when you conquer your initial set of capitols. Especially when attacking Denmark, Sweden and France, it would be somewhat all the same. I'd very much want have any suggestion for varied gameplay (optional quests? and faction specific targets?
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 23, 2013 14:35:24 GMT
The "..." units were dark grey, no worries.
I think I did outline some faction specialities in those text files I sent you though.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 24, 2013 5:21:24 GMT
Okay, it's in the EC dropbox, right? If the faction specialties are the unique units, I've already covered that. I'll check it for places not yet covered by the general objectives of each faction (for example, starting neutral places which are later on should be hostile), to give us a couple of optional quests.
Also, I'm planning to have the faction civilization AI bonuses given to the player too. The AI factions have specific bonuses I made in the CivEditor.
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Shieldwolf
EC Admin
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 27, 2013 9:23:31 GMT
I have started giving optional quest based on the TEXT file you've given, scutari. You have started with the other factions, or shall I rush an SSA file over the weekend for you (and unleash, if he's still interested with PT)? EDIT: I'll also lock the factions as per your suggestion.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jun 28, 2013 21:01:31 GMT
I think the other factions need to wait for now. Go for the rushing.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jun 29, 2013 5:15:01 GMT
Okay then. I'll forward the SSA file over the weekend. I have made the necessary adjustments, and all your suggestions have been incorporated.
EDIT:
Here's the file.
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Post by scutarilegion on Jul 7, 2013 13:17:28 GMT
I have to say I didn't have the time to PT the scenario this week Shieldy. I had other projects to finish, and now the army service draws very close. I will be stepping to service tomorrow, and first vacation will be in 2 weeks.
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Soty
EC Core Team
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Post by Soty on Jul 7, 2013 17:32:53 GMT
Guess who handed in his final paper for this semester just some 5 minutes ago! I do not plan on working in the last summer holidays before my graduation so I will have some time for EE (yet, I will have to write my diploma thesis "The beta factor in theory and practice") PT Europe in agony rightaway
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Soty
EC Core Team
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Post by Soty on Jul 7, 2013 18:37:18 GMT
sigh. Its just frustrating to get overrun by 2 enemies right after the war starts. Plus, even though I allied with Austria, they attack me...
- all of a sudden, without any previous warning all my recruiting buildings turn yellow and the units I queued - and even worse - all the resources I spent on these units are lost. then that damn enemies attack me again.
- frequently my peasants simply stop working. that's annoying more to follow
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jul 8, 2013 5:08:43 GMT
I have to say I didn't have the time to PT the scenario this week Shieldy. I had other projects to finish, and now the army service draws very close. I will be stepping to service tomorrow, and first vacation will be in 2 weeks. No worries Scutari. Your help has been tremendous, and there's no need to force it upon yourself. As they say, it's not good if "gaming" becomes a "chore". sigh. Its just frustrating to get overrun by 2 enemies right after the war starts. Plus, even though I allied with Austria, they attack me... - all of a sudden, without any previous warning all my recruiting buildings turn yellow and the units I queued - and even worse - all the resources I spent on these units are lost. then that damn enemies attack me again. - frequently my peasants simply stop working. that's annoying more to follow Hi Soty! What faction are you currently playing? I need that to check why after your alliance with Austria, they are attacking you. The buildings turning Yellow is because you lost MPU (manpower units), and, as I have said in the Scenario Guide, you need to maintain at least 1 MPU to avoid losing control of buildings and peasants stopping working. Annoying as hell, yes I know, but if you know this requirement and plan ahead (don't spam units too much, but instead fortify your area on the first years, and counter-attack instead of attacking first), then, you'll be okay. I hope you try again, I don't want to lose your interest on your first try.
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Shieldwolf
EC Admin
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jul 8, 2013 5:12:01 GMT
Guess who handed in his final paper for this semester just some 5 minutes ago! I do not plan on working in the last summer holidays before my graduation so I will have some time for EE (yet, I will have to write my diploma thesis "The beta factor in theory and practice") PT Europe in agony rightaway And what in H's name is "the beta factor in theory and practice"? Hahaha... Good Luck on that diploma thesis. You are way on the heady stuff, Soty.
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Soty
EC Core Team
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Post by Soty on Jul 8, 2013 9:52:03 GMT
well. I assume you've heard of the beta factor, a concept developed by mossin sharpe lintner(?) - its frequently used in valuation. and my task is to find out on the theoretical background, theoretical problems and how valuation professionals use it, how they compute it and so on.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jul 10, 2013 8:58:23 GMT
well. I assume you've heard of the beta factor, a concept developed by mossin sharpe lintner(?) - its frequently used in valuation. and my task is to find out on the theoretical background, theoretical problems and how valuation professionals use it, how they compute it and so on. To be perfectly honest, I have heard the Beta factor, but I don't know anything about it. If I did, it's 100% sure I forgot it. If that's your Thesis, are you planning on doing some hardcore valuation stuff in your real employed life?
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Post by scutarilegion on Jul 11, 2013 18:08:12 GMT
I'm in the army now. About 2 weeks until I get vacation and can PT (if needed)
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jul 12, 2013 11:19:40 GMT
I'm in the army now. About 2 weeks until I get vacation and can PT (if needed) Thanks Scutari. Be safe in the army. @soty (or anybody else PTing) - If you were playing the Ottoman's, the yearly Religion bonus of the Muslim is glitched. The mpu I inadvertently made as Gold instead of Food, so that the buildings become automatically Yellow (because you lose all MPU foods).
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Post by scutarilegion on Jul 12, 2013 15:02:00 GMT
Sure thing Shieldy, at least it's not war here unlike where Tal lives.
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Shieldwolf
EC Admin
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
Posts: 2,436
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Post by Shieldwolf on Jul 13, 2013 6:12:00 GMT
Agree. There's a limit though, right, in your stay with the army? Something like a year or two? Or would it be months?
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