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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 4, 2014 0:20:04 GMT
Hi! Messing around with the triggers... yet again. It seems I love wasting my time with them. I'm trying to make an Ion Cannon, like the one in C&C. Here's how it looks like: LINK Note: This is an initial version. I might add some more eye candy. My problem: - Can't make units near another unit/or building die/blow up. - How to add a countdown message which shows in real time how much the player has to wait until he can use the cannon again.
Attachments:Ion cannon.scn (56.49 KB)
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 4, 2014 5:42:28 GMT
Hi! Messing around with the triggers... yet again. It seems I love wasting my time with them. I'm trying to make an Ion Cannon, like the one in C&C. Here's how it looks like: LINK Note: This is an initial version. I might add some more eye candy. My problem: - Can't make units near another unit/or building die/blow up. - How to add a countdown message which shows in real time how much the player has to wait until he can use the cannon again.
Cool pic! On 1, how would you fire up the Ion Cannon? I remember the Ion beam being controlled by the player in C&C. How would you use it, since it has a direct bearing in the way units/ buildings die. On 2, you could use the Chat player function in the effects section. Downside is you need to have each and every number inputted in the chat (ex: 1:00, 0:59, 0:58, 0:57 etc. in each chat message inside a continuous effect).
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 4, 2014 11:20:03 GMT
Hey! I'm using chat messages -> Select a unit, open the chat message, press "C" and hit enter and the unit dies. But there's another thing: If I select more than one unit, the effect is distributed(and not evenly) on the selected units. And I want the FULL effect to apply for one unit ONLY but, of course, damage nearby units too. Regarding the countdown, I thought I had to make a number input for every interval. Too bad there's no better way. One more thing, this is optional - I tried making it rain before the cannon is activated(kinda like in C&C Renegade) but it doesn't work because there can be no rain effect when it's applied to a unit and not a big tile/part of terrain. Any ideas on that? Edit: And what does "Previous Location" mean/do in triggers?
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 4, 2014 18:04:15 GMT
Previous Location would mean the last location your unit was, like if it was returning from one point to another. Very useful for manually resetting Patrol areas.
As to the select a unit, that could work. For the damage to be distributed you need to have units near selected unit picked up by the editor. This can be achieved using unit variables (or simple Food/ IRON/ STONE under the units) For example:
> Object Specification : Marine Selected by P1 (MARINE) > Object Specification : All Computer Units 1 to 9999 LOS of MARINE (UNITS AFFECTED) > Effect : Unit Variable UNITS AFFECTED Unit Variable 5 > Object Specification : UNITS AFFECTED Unit Variable 5 to 5 (UNITS AFFECTED FINAL) > Effect : Your effect here (but with lesser power, for example, maybe damage 50% and not 100% as with the marine), with object selecting the UNITS AFFECTED FINAL as above
The above means that your effect will not only target the Marine, but also all units within the LOS of the Marine, as long as they have the Variable 5.
2. Yeah, rain can only be used on areas. Haven't seen one scenario which can target a unit only.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 4, 2014 20:08:06 GMT
I didn't quite understand what I must do. ^^; And variables have always been complex to me. I think I've asked someone(maybe you) to explain them to me but still couldn't get the idea. And they say "Unit variable" can be used for just about anything. Here's how I had it set: - Object specification: Marine selected by P1 - Object specification: Any unit NEAR Marine - Effect: Kill Marine - Effect: Kill any unit - Trigger: If SELECTED Marine EXISTS, KILL Marine AND Kill any units But it doesn't work. :/
P.S. I tried your advice. It worked... somehow and I don't know how. BUT it's not perfect: I placed a marine, surrounded with medics. And in the object specification I pointed the units on the map(not from the drop down menus). And the medics died but with a delay. And if I specify them by SET: ALL UNITS or SET MEDICS1 - nothing happens. The trigger was - IF Marine SELECTED BY P1, THEN kill medics.
Even my trigger(without the unit variable) works but if the units are specified ON THE MAP. Hm... I think the problem lies in the faulty half-assed trigger system. Last night I've managed to make a tank kick up dust ONLY when moving, but the effect doesn't work with every 'smoke' effect. For instance, the volcano smoke wouldn't stop. Even if the unit is still. Is there a way to make a trigger which stops a running effect?
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 5, 2014 5:37:16 GMT
If you would be kind to post (or reconstruct) how you made your trigger with the marine and medics, kindly post them. Maybe you only lack 1 to 2 things there. On the graphic effects, yep, there are some effects that can be stopped, others that cannot. Trial and error only buddy. And no triggers to stop those effects that are hardcoded-ly looped.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 5, 2014 14:23:58 GMT
Here it is. I added some other units around the marine. And guess what - it works, flawlessly. And in the object specification the option is SET: ALL UNITS. However, it doesn't work in the Ion Cannon.scn(Have a look at it if you want, it's in the first post). And sometimes the shockwave effect is purple and not white. Attachments:Marine TEST.scn (54.41 KB)
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 5, 2014 14:54:02 GMT
Here it is. I added some other units around the marine. And guess what - it works, flawlessly. And in the object specification the option is SET: ALL UNITS. However, it doesn't work in the Ion Cannon.scn(Have a look at it if you want, it's in the first post). And sometimes the shockwave effect is purple and not white. Got it. There are 2 things you need to update in order for your first scenario to work: 1 - In the objects specification, change COLLATERAL to include not only 1 to 1, but 1 to 99999. This means that all objects near the selected object will be killed, not only 1. 2 - In your Effects trigger, delay the killing of the selected object by 1 second. Remember that effects are triggered in succession, so if you put them all without delay, the scenario tends to kill the selected object, rendering your Kill Collateral effect obsolete (since the condition "selected by player 1" cannot be met. Here's your updated scenario, with the above changes: Attachments:Ion cannon updated.scn (56.54 KB)
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 5, 2014 16:07:15 GMT
Aaah, so it was the delay. I see. Thanks a lot, Shieldwolf! I added a sound effect and now I'll add some more effects. I'll post the end result here. If there's no reply, I'll update this post. Due to these needed delays in effects it seems they can't be executed all at the same time. Too bad, but at least the overall idea is realizable. Edit: Now, here's something I've never done before - how to make the cannon available only once per, say, every 60 seconds AND working if ONLY 1 unit is selected? No more!
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 6, 2014 5:20:25 GMT
The whole process is a little bit tedious in explaining, but I'll post a sample scenario using your first scenario. I'll upload it not later than tomorrow.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 6, 2014 12:28:12 GMT
Much appreciated. Thanks!
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 8, 2014 19:30:28 GMT
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 9, 2014 21:38:48 GMT
I just took a look at it. Amazing! And a bit complicated. To turn triggers ON/OFF using other triggers. Trigger inception. Thanks again! Hopefully now I'll manage to complete this ion cannon without problems. I'll keep you posted.
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 11, 2014 5:53:45 GMT
It's in the start that the confusion comes, but once you get the hang of it, I'm quite confident you'll get it right on succeeding triggers, buddy.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 11, 2014 22:18:45 GMT
Almosttt!! Unfortunately, I hit on a rock again. This is starting to look as if I'm gradually making you make the triggers work for me. But if I knew how, I would've done it myself without bugging others. Ion_cannon_testing.rar (168.79 KB) I added sound effects. Looking sweet BUT I can't make the Charging SFX run only once while the cannon is charging. First I inserted it in the "available" trigger which makes everything run once per 60 seconds. But then what happens is that EVA says "Ion Cannon charging" when it's ready. Second, I tried making a trigger, kinda like the one you made and posted a few days ago(run once per 20 or more seconds for one unit only) but something's not right. And I'm instinctively searching for logic in Conditions(if trigger has fired) then .... but in this case looping is constant(if the square is checked) or trigger happens only once. Setting a "condition true for... seconds" wouldn't help either. I'm not sure if I'm making sense for you here. That's why I attached what I tried to do. I'm also planning on maybe adding another small visual effect but haven't tested it yet. Still, what we have so far is quite the eye candy, if you ask me. P.S. I'm sure you know but still - put the sounds in the SOUND folder.
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 12, 2014 14:25:54 GMT
No worries at all. Whenever you need something clarified, as long as I know it, I'll be glad to help. As to the SFX, you need to delete the Trigger0 Checked portion of the condition (since this means that once Trigger0 fires, that condition becomes invalidated). To work around this, you need to make an effect that makes Trigger4 ON, whenever you finish using the ion cannon. In reality, the wait seconds would be your 60 seconds + the delay on the voice activation of the "Ion Cannon Ready". In this example, I made it 5 seconds (65 charging time all in all). Here's the file for your reference. Ion cannon_final test.scn (57.38 KB)
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 12, 2014 23:20:13 GMT
Wow! Thanks... again. Let's see if I got it: We create a trigger, we create an effect which sets the trigger ON. And that way, in another trigger, we can make it like a new effect(which in this case would be a chain effect). And succession would be better in complicated triggers(like the ion cannon) than when using "Looping". OK, what's left to finish? 1/ If 2 or more units are selected, the visual effects are divided(not equally) among them which doesn't look like an ion cannon. 2/ If the unit is not a building, then there's no shockwave effect. But I don't think this is of any importance to mess with. Considering 2/ I think I might make this effect applicable only for buildings. So I'll test the cannon some more and if everything's OK and I have nothing more to add, I'll post the official release(with the respective credits, of course). P.S. 2 questions: 1/ Is it possible to make an effect happen and cease after a few seconds. For example - earthquake - make it appear and stop after 5 seconds? I tried it with the effect>trigger ON/OFF thingy you taught me but it didn't work. Could it be that some effects have fixed duration no matter what? 2/ Probably the answer is "no" but I have to ask - is it possible to merge triggers from 2 different scenarios?
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 13, 2014 8:40:00 GMT
Thank you, and good luck on the trigger work to finish it. On your 2 questions, sadly, the answers to both is No. Earthquakes (and all effects) once triggered, would last until the time they are meant to end - you can't end it midway. As to the merging of triggers, you can only copy and paste one set of triggers, and manually add the remaining one (since copy & pasting the other would overwrite the existing one).
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 21, 2014 21:47:00 GMT
I've noticed the following: 1/ Even if no unit is selected, but "C" is typed, only the SFX is present, nothing else happens but the cannon goes back to charging. 2/ If you select, for example, a soldier(effect applies only for buildings) and type "C" then QUICKLY select a building, the effect will actually work. I don't think that's something that can be fixed since it's about real timing. In some cases - like fierce gameplay and fast clicking - the player could, by accident, wipe out something he didn't want to, though. 3/ And I can't make the "Unable to comply" SFX to be present only in these 60 seconds of charging. I'm using the conditions again. Figured this is simple enough and should work but turns out not. The way I've set it at some point EVA would say that regardless of anything - even when the cannon is ready. => Ion cannon_FINAL_ALMOST.scn (57.86 KB) => Sounds.rar (323 KB)
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 22, 2014 9:34:29 GMT
Let me have a look at it this evening.
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 23, 2014 13:05:42 GMT
On 1, The first trigger should include a Condition that specifies a building MUST be selected while typing C. This way, you can also avoid problem 2. On 3, you need to turn off the "unable to comply" triggers before making the Ion Cannon available, and then turn it back ON after the Ion Cannon is fired. Here's the updated scenario: Ion cannon_FINAL_ALMOST_shieldy.scn (57.99 KB)
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 24, 2014 14:31:57 GMT
I'll be honest - in this final scenario update I really lost the thread. No offence, Shieldwolf. I see you've added the 2 "Unable to comply" triggers to the Ion cannon, charging and another trigger. This nested trigger system is very complicated, I must admit. And all this works. Although I imagined and hoped it would be a lot simpler. I'd like to know: 1/ The Condition tab - it has "Trigger ON/OFF" but somehow it's not working as I hope/as it should? And all these updates you did on the Ion Cannon scenario included setting trigger states via effects and at some point I guess this kinda qualifies as changing/setting conditions. Am I right? 2/ Which one is better - creating triggers with effects and then creating another trigger(a control trigger) which "juggles"(if I may say so) the other triggers OR trying to put all or most of the things in a few triggers?
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 25, 2014 8:13:46 GMT
No offense taken, buddy. I learned all of this the hard, painstaking way, and the baby-steps are the hardest part. So don't ever think I'll get annoyed or quit on you. Just keep asking, and if I know the answer, I'll be more than willing to assist. On 2, the ON-OFF trigger will work wonders, and that is my preferred choice, especially if you have certain effects firing in successive sequences. It takes patience and trial & error to get used to, but once you get it, you'll be way okay. You'll get to make cooler stuff too! On 1, yes, anything that alters the state of the CONDITIONS tab using the EFFECTS section changes the previous conditions. This way, you could have different lines of conditions specific to a certain period of time or requirement, nested on 2 to 3 triggers. Just think it as if you are doing Morse Code: there are only dots and dashes, but you can make them sensible by just following a set rule. A simple nested and self-activating trigger set is below: Trigger 1 > Checked, Not Looped, Effect > TURN ON Trigger 2 Trigger 2 > Unchecked, Not Looped, Effects > various effects > delay > TURN ON Trigger 1 In using ON and OFF, I suggest you have one "Starting" trigger, which contains ALL the main conditions, and an "Effects" trigger that will be the subject of the ON and OFF. Unless the Effects trigger and the Starting trigger is available all the time, DON'T check the loop button. I suggest that whenever your triggers get complex, re-arrange them in a logical, step-by-step manner. Properly naming the trigger too helps a lot.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Feb 26, 2014 19:05:45 GMT
I'll copy that post in a notepad. It certainly is a clever way of making triggers. I made it so that the Ion Cannon is available when Digital Epoch is researched. Now I'm trying to make the "Unable to comply" SFX run when the cannon is ready but not fired. If I can't get it working(hope I will), I'll write here. As for the uploading - I'll release it here and in EEH. I feel that my interest in the game is gradually fading... again. From time to time I get that "burst" to install a game and play and/or make some experiments. In the EE case every time I come back to it, I advance and learn something new. The ability to produce rescaled units was something I've wanted to do years ago. But didn't know how until last year. After that I saw that I can expand the trigger. And I did. Thanks to your and other members' help. Once again - I appreciate your attention and help.
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Feb 27, 2014 4:51:16 GMT
We all do need a break from EE (even die-hards like me, sadly ) The trick is to NEVER leave, just rest and once you get that itch again, come back here. So yep, I hope you'll finish this.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Mar 7, 2014 15:29:17 GMT
Hi! The last problem that persists is that SFX: no comply doesn't work when the cannon is ready and a unit(not a building) is selected. Same thing even when nothing is selected but the cannon is ready. I created a few more triggers combining the rest but still doesn't work. Ion cannon_FINAL_FINAL_FINAL.scn (59.06 KB)
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Mar 8, 2014 10:20:44 GMT
Okay. Will check when I arrive from work.
EDIT:
So, I checked it. Just a question: the ion cannon can be fired by selecting both Units and Buildings? If yes, then some of the trigger conditions are not necessary and will complicate things. Remember too that nested objects still fire even though you nest it on another object. So that a requirement that states a building should be selected that is Near any unit that is ALSO selected will not fire (since this basically means that the unit AND the building should be near and selected, which is obviously not your requirement).
If you just need to have both Units or Buildings selected to fire the cannon, and that the NO comply sound is applicable to both, then it would just be a matter of duplicating the triggers, and just changing the Object specification.
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Post by t1m2n3t4 on Mar 12, 2014 1:06:46 GMT
No, the ion cannon is supposed to(and does) fire only when a Building is selected. Everything's fine there. The problem, which - come to think of it, isn't a big deal and could be neglected - is that when the cannon is ready, and I select a unit, and hit "c" - EVA has to say "Unable to comply". But she doesn't. And I'm pretty certain I piled up some unnecessary triggers there, trying to get it working. I might get rid of them. I'm planning on finally releasing this thing in the upcoming days. I'll just need to prepare the text file and a nice screenshot that would hook people right away.
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Shieldwolf
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Post by Shieldwolf on Mar 12, 2014 4:35:42 GMT
Okay then. I'll check this evening.
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Shieldwolf
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Sorry Tal, I have to change the Custom Title. There is only one God :P
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Post by Shieldwolf on Mar 13, 2014 18:13:23 GMT
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